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Part II!

*rubs hands together* Ok! Sorry again for taking so long to respond; I hadn't intended to leave it that long--I'm working on a few deadlines and got carried away!

@ claremonty: I'm really pleased to hear you thought I struck a good balance! I strongly agree that most h/c stories are far too much comfort (or, sometimes, far too much hurt) for the genre to be appropriately applied to it, and I sometimes wonder if it is because it's difficult for the author to want to put their beloved characters in painful positions.

When I started writing McKay's point of view (starting in iv., on page 7, I think it is), I actually felt a really strong sense of compassion and irony for him. He's completely convinced that his assessment is the correct one, and it all makes perfect sense to him--so much so that without his strong connection to John, it's possible that he may have lost himself to insanity simply because of his conclusions. I'll admit it was very fun to write, because the 'fourth wall' of knowing where the character does not is a way to connect to the reader that doesn't always happen. We're sharing knowledge, and I'm offering anticipation as to when and how the characters will attain that knowledge--when they can catch up to the reader.

claremonty wrote:

I'm not very familiar with the fandom, so as an outsider I appreciated not being thrust into an intimate situation before I got a thorough tour of the characters' emotions and histories.

I definitely appreciate that--there are a few overreaching genres of 'shipping' stories, in my opinion, and only one is 'openly acknowledged'--the 'Porn Without Plot' genre. But, 'First Time' as a genre interpreted in its purest form, which is the relationship/feelings discovery moment, is often written with blurred lines. It's like, there really are two 'First Time' types--the kind with the slow buildup, and the kind that takes the reader's belief in the pairing as a given. My story is definitely more the former than the latter, though I've read some phenomenal first time stories where both characters fall for each other in the framework of the story with no prior feelings at all.

Anyway, the reason I bring that up, is, I think it's something worth talking about in the context of a multifandom archive. We all have writers whose stories we'll read no matter what fandom they've written in, and sometimes that means we'll be reading things where we have not much more idea about the characters than what we read in the story itself. One thing I adore about SGA and its writers (fanfiction, rather) is that... when I started reading stories in this fandom, I hadn't watched the series yet! I was still watching SG-1. And yet, they completely held up for me, and I found myself very much looking forward to David Hewlett (Rodney)'s first guest appearance on SG-1, because I loved how the stories I'd already read portrayed him. I've noted that this is something that has happened more often than you'd think among my other SGA friends. There's something about John and Rodney as characters that is easily translatable in writing, easily recognizable--and what's more, neither detracts from each other, at least, they hadn't in my experience.

Err, sorry, I'm a bit of a fangirl, so I got carried away, there.

claremonty wrote:

Personally, I love sensitive slash fanfic for the window it provides into characters' unacknowledged internal dilemmas - this story is a great example of how to do it well.

Yes! Thank you, and I completely agree. That, above all else, is why I love slash so much. The power dynamics that is everpresent in a heterosexual relationship is for the most part lifted away, to be replaced by a whole new set of issues, ones that lend themselves very greatly to internal conflict.

@ timeguardian: Thanks so much! As well as my first h/c story, I realized that this is really my first 'action' piece, which I'm glad I didn't really think about till *after* I'd finished it, or I might have gotten intimidated. I'm delighted that you liked the title--I have a weird thing about titles... I tend to actually pick them before I write the stories themselves, as a lot of times they help me frame the theme of the story. This one helped immensely, because it kept reminding me that John's PoV was all about the title (and Rodney's, the art)--he has no clue what's going on, and the only conclusion he can draw is that something is very, very wrong. He can't hear the music. I don't think that's a silly way to rate scenes at all, by the way--if you can see something as you read it, rather than having to pause to work out logistics, it means the writer's done their job, and you don't have to work at it. Thanks again for such a great compliment!

timeguardian wrote:

I am normally slash-phobic by nature, but the way this story was built really eased that. There was a subtle build up, John is shown as taking care of Rodney, Rodney learning that he had to face up to emotions and John staying with him while Rodney rode out the effects of the venom was a nice touch, and really hit home what the hurt/comfort genre is all about.

Again, thank you so much for giving it a chance! I used to dislike slash; it took finding a fandom where two people had a good deal of chemistry and some really fabulous, convincing writers to get me to give it a try, and now I finally understand what all the fuss is about! It really isn't something I could ever try to explain in the way of converting anyone, though, heh. Not that I'd try. Discovering it for myself was a revelation all on its own.

ANYWAY. A lot of the subtlety comes from the nature of John's position on Atlantis (military commander, and he's a Colonel in the USAF, so there's Don't Ask, Don't Tell in full effect) as well as Rodney's inherent self-protective nature. Still, besides the addition of the romantic element, I truly think that part of why this story works is that the motivations are character-pure--John would behave the way he did whether or not he has feelings for Rodney that transcend friendship. That's always my goal as a writer--to convince my readers of a situation using as much of what they're already comfortable with as I can.

Which brings me to the overall concept of slash, and the more specific concept of story origin, for the lack of a better term. What I mean by 'story origin' is, where do you start? What audience are you writing for? As a good example--there's a community on Live Journal called 'McSmooch.' Every few months, the mods open it up for a couple of weeks for people to write stories of John and Rodney kissing. As you might imagine, none of us really feel the need to tailor our stories to an audience who might need convincing that they'd kiss each other in the first place! Some of us do, of course, but the point is, there's definitely a different feel to slash stories as opposed to het stories, and while I could delve into the societal reasons, here isn't the place

. In a fandom-oriented way, though, slash definitely has levels, and those levels are more significant than your typical het pairing.

A lot of it is perception. It is flat out, simply easier to see chemistry between men and women than it is to see it for same sex couples. We're wired that way from childhood, to dip into that dangerous societal pool again. Still, slash is a wildly popular 'genre' of story, and for anyone new to it, it can be a very precarious place to stand, specifically because there are the levels of perception and story origin to think of.

Another interesting thing to think about is the difficulty of writing a straight (oh, forgive the pun) friendship story between two characters you usually write in a relationship. I have a few genfic John & Rodney friendship pieces, and my goodness, once one puts the Slash Goggles on, they are really hard to take off; we train ourselves to read into every little gesture, look, and hidden meaning, after all! I think it helps that they were some of the first things I'd written in SGA, but still, it's an interesting thing to think about.

In any event, I completely understand why anyone would be wary of reading slash, given the fluidity of the 'story origin' question. I'll be honest, my two NC-17 stories, though they do involve some buildup, have nothing like the care and detail that TtDM has in persuading the reader that there's something going on. What I love the most about slash, though, is that uncertainty that can often be missing in het stories. 'Does that person like me back? Could they like me back? What would it mean for our lives as we're currently living them? Is it worth the risk?'

I recently wrote a ficlet from John's perspective addressing these questions, and while I'm certainly not trying to pimp myself out in terms of getting more readers for it, I think some of you might find it interesting. It's from John's perspective, unrequited, called Controlled Descent (should still be in my badge). If it is in bad taste to mention it, I can edit it out--I just truly wanted to offer an example of a non-explicit slash character piece that addresses the issues head on, but is an introspective (rather than an action) piece.

Whew! If you're still reading, thanks for your patience! And thanks for all the lovely things you've all said, it means a great deal!

~Darsy

I first want to say thanks so much to everyone who has been willing to read the story despite their dislike of slash! I really appreciate the trust.

@ moderndaydrifter: I've never seen the Cave but I am flattered that anything in my writing brought to mind something professionally done! I think I wanna address the slash thing farther down as a general comment, but again, thanks for giving it a chance!

We always joke in fandom that in SGA, anything can happen. I have a story where John and Rodney are ICE CUBES and have been told they're both completely in character... so, yeah, definitely see your point on applicability.

As for the paragraph you mention--I definitely see what you mean there, though to be honest, I was riding the line there between descriptive and trying to generate a bit of whirling confusion in the reader, to connect to Rodney's experience. I'll look it over and see if I can lose a bit of it and retain that, though. Thanks for pointing it out.

moderndaydrifter wrote:

Thanks for a good read, Darsy. I will come back and defitely finish this one.

If you are indeed touchy about slash to the point where you won't want to read a kiss (which I'm totally not judging, btw), I suggest that instead of stopping, you maybe tell yourself, 'okay, they kissed' and then skip down a paragraph until you get to one where that isn't still going on. Part of why I suggest this is there's a pretty impactful moment after the kiss that I think you'd find interesting/appreciate, and I'd hate for you to miss it. Do as you like, though, I won't be upset either way

And I appreciate your encouragements to the others on this subject!

@ cathri: Thank you for your compliments! I can definitely understand not seeing a relationship--above and beyond any subtext, I just simply love John and Rodney's friendship and interactions.

cathri wrote:

A couple of very small nitpicks, story-wise - I thought it was a bit unreasonable of them to expect the locals to have warned them about the insect. If Earth is anything to go by, most planets will have plenty of potentially lethal wildlife. Also not taking Tayla back seemed odd, because she's often the one who understands local customs and gets people to talk.

Hmm, while I see your point on the insect, I think I probably did this incorrectly in a different way. My intent was to show that John is a bit irrational in his expectations due to his overprotectiveness, and thus, when something went wrong, he decides that the 'natives' are to blame for not warning them ahead of time about anything potentially dangerous. Also, the Teyla thing does make sense as well, though here I did it intentionally. Carter tells John to bring Ronon and that's it, and that tells Sheppard that it's not diplomacy that they have in mind. Here, my mistake was not showing a character moment that sells it--because, you're right, Teyla is the diplomat, and it would make more sense that she would find out the information they need to know. Unfortunately I let my desire for a confrontational scene drive the plot! I'm not sure I can change it without substantially changing the story, but I really appreciate your pointing that out, as not allowing the plot to drive character motivations without good reasoning is my 'Prime Directive' as a writer, and I can't always catch when I do it!

cathri wrote:

And I absolutely loved John's suggestion of rattling off the Riemann-zeta function. My inner geek cracked up big time - and I thought it was a lovely indication that John's not the ignorant jock he goes out of his way to project.

Hee, thanks! My husband always points out that Sheppard is such a geek, and how can no one else notice it? So it's fun to allow him to let that part out sometimes, though I spent a while looking for a good example that would make sense that John would think of it at that moment.

Posting in two comments as I had most of this already written and no time to post it! So, /end part I.

~Darsy

*blushes at the lovely compliments* Thanks, both of you! Note for anyone reading comments first: There are six sections, three for each PoV character--so John's section is i. - iii., and Rodney's is iv., v., and x. (the numbering will make sense when you read it, lol...)

I really enjoyed writing this story; as I mention in the notes, it's a collaborative art + story submission to a LJ community called artword, and the art at the beginning was made for me by the artist to prompt me to write a story based on what I was sent. I got the art in the beginning of May and struggled for three weeks on what I was going to write, until I finally reset the story in the Pegasus galaxy (where the city of Atlantis is)--so I ended up having a month almost to write it, but I wrote it in three days. *facepalm*

This is my first time writing hurt/comfort, though I've had a ton of great examples from the SGA fandom (the quality of writing I've found in that fandom, especially in the communities I spend time in on LiveJournal, is astounding)!

=====

I agree with theweasleyboys that slash stories can really put people off, especially if a) they're not canonically slash, as most slash couples aren't; or b) if the reader isn't used to reading that couple, or slash couples in general. Just like any couple, there are the stories where the writer assumes the reader sees the subtext/relationship as plausible, and doesn't set it up. However, there's something really great about being convinced as you read, especially if the story isn't primarily about the feelings between the two characters. This story of mine is kind of a cheat, because the gist of it is about Rodney's feelings for John, but you don't find that out until later on.

I've started a paragraph on h/c about six times and keep erasing it, so I'll add my thoughts on that later, I guess!

*hopes you all enjoy!*

~Darsy

((Just a quick FYI, I'm going to Shore Leave the week of the 11th of July (SGA premiere watching with tons of fans! YAY), so not that week, please! Thanks!!))

~Darsy

kaira-chan wrote:

thats how it was for me too, but it's gone back to normal now

Yep, seems to be fixed. Thank you, FanLib engineers!

~Darsy

Oh, so it's not just me, then! I feel a bit better.

~Darsy

This one is one of my favorite scenes from Stargate:Atlantis... I tend to switch avatars based on what I'm currently into, so I had Hermione for a very long time. It took me quite a while to pick an SGA icon I liked that was distinctive enough for me, but I really do love this one. John's grabbing Rodney by his tac vest (tactical vest, they use it going out on missions)!

I didn't make it, though! It's by LJ's 'newkidfan,' whose icon journal 'blimey_icons' has some really, really great stuff.

~Darsy
ps. My old avatar:

Avatar I wish was prettier because I love the text:

The only thing that works for me is to make sure I actually italicize what I want in italics as I write, even when I place the html code into the story--then after I've finished, I save the HTML version and do find/replace on <i> and </i> (and any center or bold tags, etc.) to strip them out. Then I save the file as a .doc and upload that. EDIT: by 'HTML version' I mean I save files in .doc but with the html hand-coded in, for LiveJournal and some other fanfiction sites like Wraithbait.

One strange consequence of this happens with italics that are smack up against any punctuation. The result is something like this: " What ?" I'd love to know why this happens (I suspect it has to do with replacing things with nothing, ie. the 'replace' entry box is blank)! It's odd to go through and look for instances of just this one odd situation and backspace the punctuation.

The last frustrating thing is that the m-dash (double long dash melded together: —) doesn't translate correctly when using the upload function (though directional quotes do, and the forum sees it properly, I notice), so I have to go through and find/replace — with -- otherwise all of my m-dashes are single dashes (-).

~Darsy

This is a neat topic to explore for me because I just recently wrote what's called a 'remix,' which is a re-telling (with permission) of a story by another author. There are many ways of going about remixing, but the way I chose to do it was to tell the story leading up to the one I remixed, and then tell a bit of the aftermath. I wrote the story in vignettes, each one prefaced by a 'status statement.' So via status statements, the story went:

darsynia (Acceptable Risk) wrote:

It was April when they kissed for the first time.
It was May when Rodney finally realized they were in a relationship.
It was June when John tried to break up with him.
Rodney spent most of July feeling inadequate.
John's birthday was in September.

One thing about remixes is that people tend to read the original story first--and the story I remixed was about John's birthday. So the reader is probably going into the story knowing this fact, and seeing 'May' lets them know there's a buildup.

I thought I'd go through and see what the first lines of some of my fics are, see how many of them start with 'the action' right away. I have started a fair few with dialogue, though what I really like to do is start with a 'hook' of some sort, either putting the reader directly into the action, as in the first quote, grounding them to a character with humor and action, as in the second, or just humor, as in the third:

His first memory is of falling, tumbling end over end in an exhilarating rush that was over far too soon.

I really should have been paying attention, John told himself as he sat on a cracked Ancient console, gun on his lap, watching the foot-high water lap at the soles of his boots.

If Ginevra Weasley were taking Witch Weekly's 'Which Quidditch Position Are You In YOUR Relationship?' quiz right now, she knew just what her score would turn out to be: 30% Seeker, 65% Chaser, 5% Beater--and 0% Keeper.

I am in the middle of writing a story for a certain style of ficathon on LJ called a 'Big Bang.' My husband calls it the 'Fan-o-Wri-Mo,' because it's like writing a nanowrimo story but in fanfiction. I was wondering if you all thought this was an effective way to start what will be at the very least a 40,000 word story (that's the minimum word limit to participate, though it can be longer)? I should note that the story takes place after the season four finale of Stargate: Atlantis, though it's all speculation in these three paragraphs, no spoilers as to what may happen in season five.

However Long It Takes wrote:

Rodney wakes in darkness, but the flashes of pain that ripple through his body are sharp enough to register as pinpricks of light against his eyelids when he presses them shut. The air around him is thick with the tang of concrete and metal; his throat and lungs feel coated with dust as he takes his first conscious, gasping breath. There is a numb sort of weight on his legs, and Rodney has a moment of sheer terror at the thought of having a broken back, of being wheelchair-bound and perennially stuck in the lab. This is so much the opposite of how he'd felt about going off-world initially that he's completely thrown by the thought—until he shifts his weight slightly and a jagged slice of agony resonates from his left leg in all directions. Not paralyzed, then.

It takes him forever to orient himself as there is a solid, unyielding surface under his knees and against his left shoulder, and he can feel the force of gravity working on every inch of him, from every direction. Moving at all leaves him dizzy and feeling an awful lot like an unwilling test subject in the research of blunt force trauma, though intellectually he knows that every pain can't be a new injury. It's cold comfort, particularly when his mind finally begins to clear enough to recognize that there's an extra layer of sound above his rasping pants for breath and the too-loud roaring of his pulse in his ears. A distant, uneven whine slides from pitch to pitch, indiscriminately, and Rodney can't latch onto it, can't place it. Every time he tries, his awareness slips away like fingertips on a ledge, like bloody hands on a rope, unraveling as the sound rips through them, uncaring and selfish.

It nags at him, like it's supposed to be important but he's lost the energy to decipher it, so it just hovers there, brushing against his ears just as the elusive columns of daylight brush against his eyes when he wills them open. The world as he knows it is completely abstract, with no reference points beyond the slant of sun and steel and shadow and the grimy stone under his hands. The noise changes, whether by proximity or by his own heightened consciousness, and Rodney has a few curious seconds of association. It sounds a little like... like electric guitar, of all things, and he's puzzled--until his mind makes the second, grim leap, and then all he can see against his tightly closed eyelids are the faces of his team, of Lorne, of Ronon, of John—battered by rubble or sucked dry, dead, dead, dead...

Oh, and tikatu--I've always thought prologues that give a sneak peak as to what will happen were really effective! You're letting the readers know what they're working toward without giving away the ending, and that's always a fun way to engage them in your story.

~Darsy

Just a quick not to say I left off my usual disclaimer, but I tend to write my comments without reading the other comments first...

I hadn't had time to go back through and see what else was said, so I'm sorry if it looks like I've ignored you, it wasn't intentional.

~Darsy

maryilee wrote:

Thanks for posting that, marphlets. And of course, since that list was made, I've noticed a few new people who have jumped in. That's great, and don't worry, we're paying attention. As we see continued activity, the list will continue to be revised.

Oh, and darsy, this list was made before you posted this last week, so I'm sure we can fit you in somewhere sooner if you are ready. Just let us know.

I've all finished and I have my grades up! I actually have a suggestion for a neat exploration of an idea from one of my stories, but in any case, I'm all set for whenever you're ready.

*goes to catch up on the billion things she has left to do!*

~Darsy

I'll be honest--I was really kind of thrown by the bolded thoughts, and I think part of this stems from the way I think and the way I apply that thought process to writing. In my mind, thoughts are always in italics because that's whispering to me (unless it's used as emphasis, which makes no sense, but there it is, heh), and bold is like, double emphasis. So italic bold just makes me go 'buh?' especially since there's no quotation marks so I can't tell if someone's really upset and screaming or thinking it--or doing both, just all in their head.

Heh.

I thought the italic sections that started some of the chapters were beautifully done. I'm a fan of this style, when done right, and this was definitely right, in my opinion. Your language is rich and descriptive, and I found myself feeling like I was reading one of my honor's creative writing course requirements (that's a good thing) where I was supposed to look for rich language and unique metaphor.

Can I also say how much I LOVE the letter? I always grin over those sorts of things because they just make everything feel more REAL.

I would also characterize this story as one where it really helps to know the people involved--but even as I say that, I want to say also that I liked that a ton of story wasn't devoted to intricately explaining the characters themselves. That, if you know, it enhances it, but if you don't, just read for the ride.

I've read to the third chapter and I hope to have time to pick it up and read the rest, but I was definitely emotionally touched by the events, which is to be commendable. Knowing from the beginning that there was a dramatic event such as a devastating flood can sometimes be detrimental to a story because the readers know ahead of time that there will be emotional drama in the story, and sometimes brace for it, which lessens the impact. This story rose above that. I have to agree with whomever said their favorite line was this one, because I agree totally:

theweasleyboys wrote:

"Well, what should I say?" he asked softly, looking back into her eyes for the briefest moment. " ‘Hi, hope the roadside bombs aren’t keepin’ you down. Oh by the way, me and Grandma are now practically homeless. Love, Matt’?"

This is such a double punch, because you picture the letter's recipient as well as the emotions of the sender. Just those few sentences say so much about the character, and I just loved it.

~Darsy

What I notice immediately is that the structure at the beginning is very loose compared to page four. The dialogue is almost free-floating, without much description, but page four looks as though there's a lot going on.

~~~
edit: more context after reading the comments: I guess what I was saying here in both sections of my post was that I thought the lines included were the first couple, and that you wrote the following dialogue in the same style to try to marry it to your story. I hope it isn't frustrating to read more about that, when you want to hear about how we thought of *your* writing. So please, take what I've said with a grain of salt (I'll leave it for context), and I just wanted to add that if nothing else, this first lines business should leave you in no doubt that you have a distinctive writing style that's recognizable the instant that it kicks in. That's something a lot of people strive for.
~~~
My gut reaction (seeing the note that the first few lines were provided from an outside source) was that perhaps Cathri was trying to incorporate the style of those lines with the rest of the story? Like perhaps seeing that their style is different from her writing style, so by writing the initial dialogue in that style as well, it could fit in better. I think this would work more effectively if there started to be some indicators (he snorted, she said, her face twisted, etc.) worked in about halfway through the banter. I wouldn't have even noticed this so strongly had you not pointed it out, though!

Not reading comments before posting:
=====
I love the first line, though I'm glad you told us they were pre-set, because I would have suggested that starting with a pronoun can be confusing. I can see why you'd want to write a story from this prompt, it's a great hook!

The dialogue is fun--I suggest adding some indicators as to the characters' reactions to each other, maybe? Especially with an OC, the readers familiar with the series won't know what typical faces they might make if they're frustrated or angry, etc. Part of what is fun about fanfiction is picturing the characters we know (either have seen or can picture from the book descriptions) saying the lines.

The paragraph starting with 'it sure is' felt a bit awkward, and I think part of what it was is the style--reminds me a bit of the Bridget Jones's Diary style, where certain words are left out in order to give a certain narrative impression. I don't think it works here, though, as the previous paragraphs weren't like this.

Example of what I mean:

cathri wrote:

They'd been intercepted leaving the main elevator on the fifth floor, taken to a holding cell on the eighth when Jason had been unable to give a good reason for being there. Hadn't got much beyond "um..." confirming her suspicions as to his intelligence.

The lack of a 'and' in front of 'taken' and a 'They' or a 'Then they' in front of 'hadn't' is kind of what I mean, here.

What's interesting is I find the farther I read, the more examples of this style there is--so maybe it'd be better to examine the first few paragraphs and see if you can align them with the style of the rest of the piece? It's not jarring if that's the way the whole thing is written--I only noticed because it seemed to start half-way down the first page

On page three, I'm kind of surprised they let her keep her hairbrush! I know it's a plot point, and an important one at that, but the place was built up as 'impregnable,' so I guess I'd have expected more out of the guards

Maybe I missed a reference earlier on about their being something along the lines of 'menacing, but not thorough.'

As someone who doesn't know anything about this fandom, it's really fascinating to think of what kind of an organization Devil Star is if a graduation exercise involves an assassination! That's not a criticism by any means--this is fascinating.

TWIST! Love twists. I like this, the shift in personality. You did a great job of setting up her contempt for his intelligence in the story up to this point, especially as it read as just her intelligence and frustration reacting to someone who wasn't on quite the same page. As foreshadowing, it's obvious, but it's the best kind, because I didn't figure it out

I had a chill there--not coming from this fandom, I couldn't have known the style of story this was, and I almost regret it because that extra layer of knowing that the character was doomed from the start would have been really exciting! I salute you for going a unique route and writing this from the perspective of a character we identify with in some ways, sympathize with just a little, and then lose, completely. It's a reset just like the one she went through, a start from zero, almost. Very effective and unique.

Oh and I love the ending! Normally a story with such tension in the beginning and middle would seem odd with a lighthearted ending but because of your 'reset,' as I called it, it fits in perfectly and left me with a joyous feeling that I'm sure would have been magnified further had I known the characters.

Overall, I really enjoyed the story, and the only nitpicks at all were the first chunk of dialogue and the style thing I tried to explain (and probably failed). I really enjoyed this despite not knowing a thing about it, and that's a mark of a great author.

edit: Oh, after reading the comments I see that there were more than 'a few lines!' That makes a lot more sense, now.

Thanks again, I feel very loved! <3

~Darsy

cathrl wrote:

Oh Darsy, I'm sorry.

I've been there. If you want to talk, pm me. If you just want a bit of reassurance, that's exactly how my first pregnancy ended after trying for several months. I now have two healthy kids aged 11 and 8.

That does help, thank you! On the maternal side of my family, all the women have had problems except my mother, and they all have kids, so that helps, too.

Hehe, and someone on Facebook did some compare thing and nominated me for 'Best Potential Mother' of her friends list, which was sweet!

Thanks again for your kind comments, everyone. *hugs back*
~Darsy